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Werewolf Card Update Suggestion


rafelcd
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Hi, I think we need to give some love to one of the World Boss card. Comparing Werewolf to King Poring and Belphegor, I think we can agree that its really lacking for a "World Boss" Card.

 

Lets Compare Werewolf to Tao for example, Tao > Werewolf (we all can agree to this right ?) 

Tao is also farmable through Instances (Verus,ET) and also on it own dungeon.. It's not that hard to get Tao comparing to WorldBoss Werewolf Card..

Even the Sealed one is still superior in term of maxHP if +10 armor..

 

We need more love for Werewolf Card 

 /hmm

So, I have made some suggestions regarding the new effects for Werewolf :

 

1. Max HP + 50% and Reflect chance (Same activation chance like KP. Reflect 10% physical attack reflect/ 7% magical reflect for 30sec)

 

2. Max HP + 50% and 100% Regeneration (HP/SP Recovery)

 

3. Max HP +50% and Neutral Elemental Resist (+5%  up to +15%)

 

Feedback always welcome 

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I will consider this topic as closed for now, because i've made smaller and bigger changes to several custom cards in our development environment quite a while ago.
Won't go into any detail for now, because it will only trigger another discussion based on information you guys just don't have just yet.

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11 hours ago, Everade said:

But we never intended World Boss Cards to become your main picks, but rather an addition to an already great roster of cards.

Then why is it that belphe card is the main pick of acce card and KP is the main pick for shield card atm? /ok 

 

"Simply because you expect it to be either, better than a normal boss (MVP) card, or at least equal to a boss (MVP) card."
Oh really? Why is Belphe better than Ifrit then? /ok 

Oh really? Why is KP card just a nerfed version of a God Item (Hervor Alvitr) + you can combine it with any other shields? /ok 

And WW is what? Its basically worse than Sealed-Tao /oops

 

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35 minutes ago, Everade said:

World Boss cards were not designed to overshadow official boss (mvp) cards just because they're stronger monsters.

Well okee fair enough 

 

but im quite disagree with this one :

35 minutes ago, Everade said:

Please don't forget that when 20 players have been attending in a world boss event at the same time, that also means that the card has the potential to drop 20 times.

It drop Werewolf's Essence. Not card, and can be obtained in 1 out of 13 chance which make the card even rarer than mvp card that can be hunted and farmed

 

+1 for the suggestion to change the effect because at this rate, it will stay on storage even if we have one /hmm

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If I may add my viewpoint:

I think the issue with the Werewolf card based on what I'm seeing in this thread is that its effect sucks. It's basically a Sealed Tao Gunka Card.

1 hour ago, Sanaaa said:

Because its effect is a total trash as a World Boss card


Though I strongly agree with @Everade saying that World Boss Cards should not overshadow official cards as it will cause balancing issues as well as lower people's creativity when building characters.

I believe that World Boss Cards shouldn't be some sort of staple or must-have too because then people will overlook genuinely good cards for their build. World Boss cards should be... spicy or be that jank card in your MTG deck.

My proposal of revamping the Werewolf card is by hybridizing it. By perhaps combining multiple effects that would not be (really) viable on its own, it could add that spiciness to the card.


Example:
Instead of +50% MaxHP and -20 Def&Mdef (this looks super meh and plain btw), why not make it +20% Max HP, +4% Atk, 10% short-ranged reflect, and has a chance of doing Lvl 1 Axe Tornado when receiving physical or magical damage. It's spicy because it doesn't add a lot of HP but it gets that cog in your head turning and thinking "Hey, I can pair this with this card and this card or this card and perhaps make a build... etc."

 

Or maybe, When receiving physical or magical damage, has a chance of transforming into a Werewolf gaining and losing specific abilities for 5 seconds. (Ability could be: Increase Atk by 100, Aspd by 5, and Defense by 100 when in Werewolf form. You cannot cast skills during this form). Again, it gets people thinking that "MAYBE I CAN MAKE THIS WORK WITH MY HOMEBREW JANK BUILD NO ONE HAS THOUGHT OF BEFORE." However, the downside is that when you transform, people see you and want to kill you since this proposed effect basically makes you go semi-berserk and you also become Thana-bait.

So yeah, to close this off, I believe cards like these shouldn't be a weaker version of another card nor should it be "the-most-op-card-for-this-class-or-build" but rather, it should make players think more creatively. Hope this helps :D 

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15 hours ago, lancelot said:

 

I don't have any use for the card and I even have multiple copies of it. If you will check the post 2018 WW was already nerf from it's original effect. Every year there are discussion from this topic and if you will check the replies, most of it comes from players who owns the card and feels useless to have it but gets shutdown because they have their own idea of "rebalance WBC". Now say it will be changed to another effect, pretty sure many will still complain like you because it just doesn't appeal you. You can't please everybody as they say.

 

Unless you can help and actually provide a new description effect that you feel balance and will help this community, please do so instead of "blabbering gibberish" stuff. If you want change, then provide actual input and don't just whine. Everade's open to suggestion but finds it difficult to find that sweet spot right? Then provide your actual input and let him decide.


People aren't asking WW card to be changed just because it doesn't please them, its mostly because its so much of a nonsense card compared to other WB cards. And no, i'm not whining, i'm simply arguing on why WW card needs to be changed and if that's called whining on your vocabulary, i don't think your mental capacity will be able to comprehend my arguments.

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Werewolf card has been up for discussion before.
And i can only repeat myself:


World Boss cards were not designed to overshadow official boss (mvp) cards just because they're stronger monsters.

Please don't forget that when 20 players have been attending in a world boss event at the same time, that also means that the card has the potential to drop 20 times.
That means that the card is in fact less rare when compared to other boss cards.

 

 

 

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I think the main issue is the player's perception of a "World Boss" Card.
Since World Boss refers to the strongest monster that is out there ravaging our tiny humans, players tend to think that its card is supposed to be superior.

But we never intended World Boss Cards to become your main picks, but rather an addition to an already great roster of cards.

Each time such a topic comes up, player's only reasoning behind is:

 

On 5/10/2020 at 6:10 AM, rafelcd said:

lacking for a "World Boss" Card.

Lets Compare Werewolf to Tao for example, Tao > Werewolf (we all can agree to this right ?) 

 

3 hours ago, Sanaaa said:

Because its effect is a total trash as a World Boss card


Simply because you expect it to be either, better than a normal boss (MVP) card, or at least equal to a boss (MVP) card.
And having a World Boss Card that its core is based on a MVP card effect just makes it look even worse than it is.



Maybe this explanation clears it up:

If a world boss card is stronger than a casual MVP card, that means that we're directly interfering with the natural balance of the very core game.
If a world boss card is equal to a casual MVP card (almost impossible to directly compare, but let's just assume it is equal), that means that we're yet again, interfering with the natural balance of the game, especialy if the effect is unique and can't be achieved with any other card of the same type.

Yes, we've released MVP cards and items that interfere with the game balance.
But we always released those items with a certain purpose to rebalance this natural balance which we felt wasn't just right. (Goldring Boss Card is a good example for that)

World Boss Cards were never designed to directly impact this natural balance.
They were designed as an easy way to get your hands on a strong card for everyone, simply because

it doesn't require skill to fight the boss.
It doesn't require lots of strength to fight the boss.
It doesn't require precise timing to fight the boss.

It's not stressful, it's a very basic but great team effort.


Normal MVP Boss monsters aren't that easy to farm for newbies, because geared up players do possibly camp and kill them in a few seconds.
Or they are locked behind instances that they can't finish just yet, at least not without having a proper team.
These classic bosses aren't timed events everyone joins with you, but require some prequisites and/or planning.

While a World Boss allows newcomers (and everyone else) to have a relaxed and fun environment, while having the chance to get a card easily (easy as in stated above, not talking about drop chance).
That's why World Boss Cards shall never be directly compared to classic MVP Boss Cards.
That's why their purpose is different, and thus not as strong as a true classic MVP Boss Card.


And please don't get me wrong:
I still have an open ear for a rebalance for the card if everyone thinks it's really THAT useless.
But you will have to change your mindset on World Boss cards before expecting to get an Advanced Tao Gunka or Thanatos 2.0.


I hope that clarifies my point of view.

 


Current state:

Right now, Werewolf offers basically a tradeoff to Tao Gunka.
While you get less of a MaxHP boost, your defense stays 30% stronger.

But what everyone is and has been asking for is to remove the negative tradeoff effect entirely and on top of that boost it up even further with an additional effect on top.
It would simply become stronger than Tao Gunka, especialy for those players who already reach the max HP cap with their current gear set.

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Yes, i absolutely agree that its current effect isn't "spicy" but rather very basic.
The initial nerf just brough it even closer to Tao which created that weird thing that's placed inbetween the original Tao Gunka and the Sealed Tao Gunka Card.
 

When it comes to a card overhaul, the sky is the limit.
While that sounds good at first glance, it just makes it really hard to find a good spot to fit it into.

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On 5/12/2020 at 2:04 AM, W e n d i r o u s said:

It drop Werewolf's Essence. Not card, and can be obtained in 1 out of 13 chance which make the card even rarer than mvp card that can be hunted and farmed

Exactly. Werewolf Essence already has a low chance rate, and you get a 1 out of 13 chances to get the card from it, and HE gum doesn't affect it. Roflmao?

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17 hours ago, lancelot said:

Hope this helps and accept that it's fate is sealed.

image.png.f6e3f7c9828e64c483e29dd5c2b8f520.png

Accept that it's fate is sealed? You mean to say that its permanent? /shy 
What you're saying is against the reason on why this very post is still up and not closed. Even if its not the admin's priority, he's still open for suggestions regarding it unlike what you're blabbering.

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On 5/28/2020 at 3:04 PM, Sanaaa said:

image.png.f6e3f7c9828e64c483e29dd5c2b8f520.png

Accept that it's fate is sealed? You mean to say that its permanent? /shy 
What you're saying is against the reason on why this very post is still up and not closed. Even if its not the admin's priority, he's still open for suggestions regarding it unlike what you're blabbering.

 

I don't have any use for the card and I even have multiple copies of it. If you will check the post 2018 WW was already nerf from it's original effect. Every year there are discussion from this topic and if you will check the replies, most of it comes from players who owns the card and feels useless to have it but gets shutdown because they have their own idea of "rebalance WBC". Now say it will be changed to another effect, pretty sure many will still complain like you because it just doesn't appeal you. You can't please everybody as they say.

 

Unless you can help and actually provide a new description effect that you feel balance and will help this community, please do so instead of "blabbering gibberish" stuff. If you want change, then provide actual input and don't just whine. Everade's open to suggestion but finds it difficult to find that sweet spot right? Then provide your actual input and let him decide.

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  • -3

Just saw this thread and the topic that's been on debate for the past years. As the Administrator indicated, it's not his priority to do so, and if you will be pushing for an updated effect, might as well answer his questions related to the balancing of the card below:

 

Why do you want it to be changed in the first place?

Because you own it and prefer a different effect? 

Please note that we only rebalance items when it makes sense to do so.

 

Hope this helps and accept that it's fate is sealed.

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Since newbies do not have access to fast movement speed items, what about adding move-speed bonus?

 

For example:

When being attacked, has a 5% chance to increase walk speed for 10 seconds.

{ sc_start SC_SPEEDUP1,10000, 50; }

 

Newbies would need to take damage before the move-speed activates. And for players who already have Werewolf Card,

chances are they use Moonlight Flower + Brazil Hat combo, or a different fast walking method.

 

This makes the card unique und beneficial to newbies, but as they progress in-game, they will need to find better items.

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